vman61
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London
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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2012 8:55:34 PM
watching the latest battles in the middle east it is sad to see the rockets being fired from school and residential areas... If muslims really do want peace why dont they object to such a blatant attempt to have their own kids killed so they can blame israel?
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tankerCA
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Chico
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Message Posted: Nov 14, 2012 12:27:26 AM
azra2011 >>it's people that make our religion sound so bad, so scary when really being Muslim is just like being Christian and that is my opinion.<<
Islam is the religion of death, Christianity is the religion of life. How many Christian schools are teaching their children how to carry, load and shoot an AK-47? show me one.
Muslim Children Trained to KILL!
Now look at the past 30 days in the Muslim world. Muslim attacks in the last 30 days
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malcm
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Message Posted: Oct 5, 2012 5:39:09 PM
There have always been those who were kind and those were cruel, and those who were smart and those who were stupid. Each of these natural characteristics have led to actions fostered by whichever of these were prevalent and dominating the behavior of those toward their fellows. Religion merely seems to increase the scope of such actions. Ahh - men!
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freedom27
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Message Posted: Oct 4, 2012 11:29:08 AM
Islam and muslims are not terrorist. They have fanaticals like all religions. Remember David Koresh. The interpretation you're reading of the Quran is wrong. They are a peaceful people.
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Sep 18, 2012 7:26:32 AM
AFP - "I issue a fatwa and call on the Muslim youth in America and Europe to do this duty, which is to kill the director, the producer and the actors and everyone who helped and promoted the film...So, hurry, hurry, O Muslim youth in America and Europe, and teach those filthy lowly ones a lesson that all the monkeys and pigs (Qur'an 2:62-65; 5:59-60; and 7:166) in America and Europe will understand. May Allah guide you and grant you success." -Egyptian Salafist cleric, Ahmad Fouad Ashoush in response to the 'Innocence of Muslims' video
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moonwind1
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 5:21:11 PM
thank God you are not a muslim anymore
i do not think you once were a muslim because if you ever were one you would never say that about the purest religion on earth........
thank God again you are NOT a Muslim........
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lordaaron
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2012 12:06:28 PM
Taking in a little historical fact for perspective: In the times of the Inquisition, the practice of torture, etc. were limited in area and did not encompass all of Christianity (Catholicism). Secondly, only the clergy could read and interpret the Bible as it was written in Latin and most people were illiterate.
So perhaps the true common denominator in all of the hate and killing in the name of religion is not really religion, but man.
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azra2011
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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2011 1:52:20 AM
You make the Muslim religion seem so bad. It is not bad at all, you say you were a muslim ? Well in the first pages of Quran it talks about Adem I Eva ( Adam & Eve ) correct ? In the bible the first two charecters were Adam and Eve!! God is God , no matter what religion you are, He is the same.Diffrent religions have diffrent names for him Johova,Allah,Jesus, everyone has their own name for him but, in reality it's just 1 god and thats god. It's people that make our religion sound so bad,so scary when really being Muslim is just like being Christian and that is my opinion.
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tankerCA
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 1:54:14 PM
Job2010 - >>By the way I was a Muslim and I become Christian.<<
That statement will get you killed in some countries, and a member of your own family could 'do the deed' without repercussion.
I congratulate you for your decision and commend you for such a bold statement. The Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ is that salvation and peace with God does not depend on our own insufficient efforts, but on the grace of God displayed through the atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross.
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2011 8:18:55 PM
“We all know your MO here.”
No, YOU purport to know my “MO”. Not “we” unless “sluggopyle” is the name of a group.
“You and yours…”
Yours? Sorry, my family doesn’t post here.
“…are obsessively pushing this idea that Islam BY ITS NATURE causes terrorism and death, rather than the arrogance of perverted zealots within it.”
You should be more careful about the adjectives you use, however true, to describe the prophet. Reference: Theo van Gogh.
“That's the whole crux here; Christianity by nature pure and innocent; Islam by nature evil.”
Islam by nature evil…? No, I’ve never stated it but I can see why some people do. I WILL continue to contest the claim however, that Islam is by nature a peaceful religion. Are there peaceful practitioners of Islam? Without a doubt. Are there practitioners of Christianity ("church-goers" as we call them) that perpetrate violence? Does the Pope wear a funny hat?
But since you are using absolute terms in regards to Christianity and Islam, which I have not done, let me stick with the Theo van Gogh reference by quoting Ayaan Hirsi Ali when she said it best:
“It also surprises me that Christians are not making a greater effort to convert Muslims to Christianity. One may wonder why I, being an atheist, would say this. But I know that for millions of Muslim women and men, a life without some spiritual dimension would be unthinkable. To live a life without God would not be possible. That is a step too far for them. Many would not be able to live without a belief and a congregation, and here Christian mission would constitute an attractive alternative to Islam.”
She even addresses your “perverted zealot” reference when she says:
"I see no hope of changing the imams," she says, "my hope is that I primarily will reach the Muslim woman, who is kept in ignorance, and make her understand that there is a much richer life outside of the Shariah," says Ayaan Hirsi Ali."
"I have a hard time understanding why I do not, as a matter of cause, am receiving help from everyone in the West. It would seem strange that in particular the Western, intellectual elite quite obviously does not understand the danger that Islam poses to the entire Western way of life."
=-=-=-=-
“When Muslims kill it's *because of* the fact that they're Muslims; when Christians kill it's *despite* the fact that they're Christians.” –your words, not mine
While I believe it is within the capacity of every person to do good or evil, human nature and the fundamental teachings of a religion are two separate things.
A truer version of what I might’ve said would be something more along the lines of:
“When a Muslim kills an apostate or unbeliever, his actions are often justified by the texts, tenets, and teachings of his religion, not to mention the personal example set by its founder. When a Christian even so much as HATES another person (regardless of religion), he fails to follow the example and teachings of Christ whom he claims to follow.”
=-=-=-=-
“..you tried to shunt my points off to a comparison of statistics, which right there is an concession that your own "essential" argument is invalid.”
No, you wrote: “With enough selective data, you can prove the sun revolves around the earth too.”
So, I gave you an opportunity to back up your point. I was not surprised that you couldn’t support it. Besides that, the evidence against your point is so lopsided it would make for a boring discussion.
=-=-=-
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LTVibe
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2011 8:41:38 AM
>>>You and yours (maybe I should have said "y'all" to denote the plural) are obsessively pushing this idea that Islam BY ITS NATURE causes terrorism and death, rather than the arrogance of perverted zealots within it. That's the whole crux here; Christianity by nature pure and innocent; Islam by nature evil.<<<
There are some Islam-bashers here who may have a Christian/religious agenda, just as I tend to have an anti-religious one.
Notice again an earlier post in this thread by my fellow atheist, CookieAcct, who quoted Taslima Nasrin:
"I don't find any difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalists. I believe religion is the root, and from the root fundamentalism grows as a poisonous stem. If we remove fundamentalism and keep religion, then one day or another fundamentalism will grow again. I need to say that because some liberals always defend Islam and blame fundamentalists for creating problems. But Islam itself oppresses women. Islam itself doesn't permit democracy and it violates human rights."
Now, leaving out the references to Islam, we have two revealing sentences:
"I believe religion is the root, and from the root fundamentalism grows as a poisonous stem. If we remove fundamentalism and keep religion, then one day or another fundamentalism will grow again."
Religion in general, and the monotheistic religions in particular, are by nature exclusive and authoritarian/totalitarian. Leaders are appointed by ruling hierarchies, not by followers. Laws and rules are not to be questioned unless one wishes to jeopardize his or her salvation. Political parties which conduct their affairs in this manner are considered extremist or fascist.
At this point in time, Islam happens to embody on a larger scale the worst aspects of religious 'fascism', just as Christianity did in centuries past, and still does on a small scale in various sects and communities.
[Edited by: LTVibe at 1/16/2011 8:42:26 AM EST]
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galah
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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2011 11:09:15 AM
All this rhetoric over a warlord who was quite nasty when he was around But just like Clinton and Kennedys of today gets his nasty habits whitewashed.
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2011 2:52:47 PM
Cheeses, X. You seriously think nobody notices this?
We all know your MO here. You and yours (maybe I should have said "y'all" to denote the plural) are obsessively pushing this idea that Islam BY ITS NATURE causes terrorism and death, rather than the arrogance of perverted zealots within it. That's the whole crux here; Christianity by nature pure and innocent; Islam by nature evil.
It's the same old revised-history-as-basis for a target ethnic/religious group. "The Jews are monopolizing our businesses". "The blacks or Hispanics are lazy". "Muslims kill because their religion orders them to". Again, we've heard it all before and we know what its purpose is. And the perpetrators can find a way to say it yet not see it. This is the pitfall of prejudice; if you keep doing it, you go blind.
Examples? Right on the page below, this comparison:
=> The Catholics do not have a papal bull stating one should slay the unbelievers. <=
and
=> Show where Catholics are similarly commanded to "slay the unbelievers". <=
(When Muslims kill it's *because of* the fact that they're Muslims;
when Christians kill it's *despite* the fact that they're Christians.
Interesting fence. Must be splintery.)
(just after that point you tried to shunt my points off to a comparison of statistics, which right there is an concession that your own "essential" argument is invalid. First you want to declare "it's the unique nature of the beast", then you want to compare numbers with another entity that, until a moment ago, wasn't supposed to share that nature. Again, to quote somebody somewhere, you can't have it both ways; either they're comparable, or they are not.)
And on and on throughout your topics. Looking over those, I find it interesting you posted one called, "Obama Skips Out on Sikh Temple to Avoid "Appearing" Muslim and then Visits a Mosque". I'm sure you know as well as I that Sikhs aren't Muslims and are wholly unrelated....
-- Now why would O'bama care about the donning of a head covering making him "appear Muslim" when the religion in question isn't even related? Because of all the hair-on-fire hysteria fomented by the ignorance that is the necessary ingredient by threads like this, and the "Ground Zero Mosque" theater and all the other sensationalist turds that get flung through media and message board in these days of fear and loathing. And the fuel that drives it is ignorance.
By the way, I couldn't help noticing, just having an overall look at the topics you've created... a bit, I dunno, obsessive, wouldn't you say? Just an observation...
[Edited by: sluggopyle at 1/8/2011 2:57:41 PM EST]
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2011 11:51:40 AM
You lost me at: "You're the one trying to sell it as an exclusive product of Islam."
Really? When have I EVER stated that?
If that is the fallacy on which you base your responses to me on the subject then it's no wonder as to why we've have never gotten anywhere.
You should've just asked out of the gate.
BTW, I'm not Catholic so defending thier centuries-old acts is of no interest to me. When they rear their "radical fundamentalist extremist" heads and start torturing and killing folks that refuse the sacraments, then I guess we'll have a sister topic to this one.
"You cannot find anywhere I've claimed that Inquisitions happened because of the nature of Christianity"
Likewise, you won't find anywhere I've claimed that terrorism is an exclusive product of Islam.
I guess we've both not claimed a lot of things. The difference is, I'm not trying to claim you did.
"I simply called out your prejudiced fallacy for what it is."
By bringing up the Inquisitions? Then you really have no idea what I believe.
"When I decry "radical fundamentalist extremism" it's in *every* breath."
Why be so prejudiced against those practicing "radical fundamentalist extremism"? What is so wrong about being "radical", "fundamentalist", or even "extreme" if it causes no harm to others and might even be beneficial?
=-=-=
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2011 6:52:59 PM
Uh- yeah Malcm... the pun was intentional. Stop deconstructing my humour.
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malcm
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2011 6:37:20 PM
while we're "at it", fellas, let's change "immoral" to "immemorial", ok? Although, come to think of it, they may both apply to the actions referred to.
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2011 6:35:42 PM
Oh horse apples, X. It's not "two different things" at all. There is no "both ways" except in your fertile imagination.
When I decry "radical fundamentalist extremism" it's in *every* breath. You're the one trying to sell it as an exclusive product of Islam. That's the part I've repeatedly shown you is erroneous, and I did it yet again by providing another ready example of the exact same radical fundamentalist extremism that has nothing to do with Islam. That's pointing out the fallacy of your false cause-and-effect through an illustration of the same syndrome that is unrelated to your prejudices. Different religions from different places; same terrorism. See what they have in common. That's what I just pointed out. You cannot find anywhere I've claimed that Inquisitions happened because of the nature of Christianity, and you won't, because I'm not enslaved to such silly prejudices.
And don't come crying to me for "solutions". That's not the topic, nor did I claim to be touching on it. I simply called out your prejudiced fallacy for what it is. If you don't like it, then find a cause-and-effect that's not fallacious. We can't even begin to get to solutions if we can't be honest about what the problem is.
Sheesh. You go through some hip boots around here...
[Edited by: sluggopyle at 1/7/2011 6:38:09 PM EST]
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2011 1:11:03 PM
"See the difference? Me neither."
Of course you don't see the difference. You are not looking for one. Nor are you presenting a solution to the problem you claim "that has kept humanity fighting itself since time immoral."
In one breath you decry "radical fundamentalist extremism!" and in the next you consider calling attention to it “Islam-hate” and go on saying it “is nothing more than the same old dehumanizing bigoted ignorance”.
You can’t have it both ways.
Should “radical fundamentalist extremism”, especially the violent and deadly variety, be confronted whenever and wherever it rears its head? Or should we just write it off to “the way things have always been”?
When you cannot bring yourself to recognize the group that is torturing and killing non-believers in OUR day, and why those other “inquisitors” no longer behave in such a manner, you hamper your ability to come up with real-world solutions to such issues.
Merely pointing out that inquisitions happened is stating the obvious. Bringing it up in this context is nothing but a vain attempt at moral equivalence and is akin to a child justifying his misdeeds because some other child did the same thing in the past.
Where are the Wycliffes, Calvins and Luthers of Islam?
The answer may not be what you think it is.
=-=-=-=-=-
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galah
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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2011 7:36:18 AM
Islam just like communist states. Saying ANYTHING negative about it will get you a death sentence in Pakistan or anywhere else evidently, Such a peaceful religion. BS. Just a con game
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2011 5:36:29 PM
That weren't a 'splain. It was an echo echo echo. Of the second post. Even though no verb.
The first one, he din't finish, so I picked up the baton. That's called teamwork.
[Edited by: sluggopyle at 1/5/2011 5:40:21 PM EST]
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2011 4:52:02 PM
Thanks for the offer S, but Galah can 'splain his own posts...
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2011 2:03:14 PM
=> Such a peaceful religion that has the death penalty for those who speak out against it. Not a discussion but death. By stoneing or hanging To wit Pakistan an <=
Looks like the sentence was truncated. Let me finish it for ya: "To wit Pakistan and the Inquisition in Europe. Except the latter was done through unimaginable torture and being burned alive at the stake with your children forced to watch."
See the difference?
Me neither.
What Galah said.
[Edited by: sluggopyle at 1/5/2011 2:05:03 PM EST]
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galah
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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2011 1:58:31 PM
Lets face it. A well paying high lifestyle gig for the clowns who head up any religion.
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galah
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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2011 1:56:26 PM
Such a peaceful religion that has the death penalty for those who speak out against it. Not a discussion but death. By stoneing or hanging To wit Pakistan an
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2011 5:17:18 PM
Thanks for the offer X, but I can 'splain my own posts...
I didn't get the impression this was about statistics, nor do I care to read any. The point is that radical fundamentalist extremism will always bring the same problems, no matter what cloak it wears. It ain't because it's based in Islam or Christianism or Zoroastrianism or Vegetarianism. It's because it's based on an authoritative "I/we know better" bag of wind. It's because it's led by self-righteous self-appointed zealots leading armies of dumb sheep that are too docile to reason for themselves. It's the actions of the driver of the car -- not the brand of the car he was driving.
All this Islam-hate is nothing more than the same old dehumanizing bigoted ignorance that has kept humanity fighting itself since time immoral. Jews, Blacks, Irish, Italian, Polish, Gypsy, Catholic, ... take a number. "Be afraid- be very afraid".
Yeah, yeah, heard it all before, not buying. I shy away from snake oil that is too expensive or doesn't work. This one's got both. And if more sheep shied away from snake oil, such extremists would have no audience. That IS their first tactical building block: establish a subhuman enemy. Fear is the primary elemental tool of the zealot. So when somebody's mongering it, our first question should be WHY they're mongering it. Because nobody ever mongers fear for the purpose of protecting people.
[Edited by: sluggopyle at 1/4/2011 5:22:35 PM EST]
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2011 12:42:52 PM
"Of course, you can take that list and substitute "Christian" for "Muslim", and you have most abortion terrorists, as well as few more nutjobs like Tim McVeigh."
While sluggo likes to argue, don't mistake him for an apologist. It is quite obvious to even the most casual observer that violent extremism is more prolific among Islamic fundamentalists in our time than any other group of people. He is just reminding you that every once in a great while, someone that went to a Christian church at some point in their life, may also flip out and go on a killing spree (teachings of Jesus notwithstanding.)
Maybe he will provide some statistics to show that fundamental Christians are actually a greater threat to the world in our day than are the Islamists. Maybe pigs will fly.
=-=-=-
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2011 11:47:54 AM
Of course, you can take that list and substitute "Christian" for "Muslim", and you have most abortion terrorists, as well as few more nutjobs like Tim McVeigh. I say "most" because we do have our female and terrorists over 40 (hey, no sexism or ageism here).
With enough selective data, you can prove the sun revolves around the earth too.
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PithyOpiner
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2011 1:08:37 PM
vman61, you present proof-positive that we must eliminate male Muzzy extremists between the ages of 17 and 40 asap! Let's get to it.
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vman61
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2010 6:24:28 PM
if you think this is just since 9/11 it isnt....
1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
A Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics,athletes were kidnapped-massacred by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by: Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens , and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
14. In 2009, 31 people wounded and 13 American Soldiers murdered on base at Fort Hood by a Major who was a...
Youre right! - A Muslim male extremist between the age of 17 and 40.
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2010 8:40:18 AM
"you can definetly take parts of the bible that sound similar"
A commonly used falsity, but go on if you wish...
Show where Catholics are similarly commanded to "slay the unbelievers".
Also, as imitators of Christ (the origin of the term 'Christian') what actions of Jesus (in the Holy Bible) would one follow that is akin to "slaying the unbelievers"?
=-=-=
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labrat420
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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2010 2:56:29 AM
you can definetly take parts of the bible that sound similar..
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2010 4:21:26 PM
"how is catholisism not a submissive religion? You have to do everything not god said but people who supposedly spoke to god and wrote it down said or else you go to hell."
I'm no longer a Catholic but I can tell you this much: If you don't believe it, I guess you have nothing to worry about. The Catholics do not have a papal bull stating one should slay the unbelievers.
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labrat420
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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2010 2:36:31 PM
how is catholisism not a submissive religion? You have to do everything not god said but people who supposedly spoke to god and wrote it down said or else you go to hell.
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xrdc
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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2010 8:36:43 AM
Those "tributes" made to the Barbary states are now considered by some to be proof that America is "occupied Islamic land".
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PithyOpiner
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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2010 12:46:11 PM
I wonder if that "wise dude" was not Thomas Jefferson, our third president who initiated our Navy and Marine Corps to face off against the Muslim Pirates who were capturing our commercial vessels in the Atlantic for ransom. Before his presidency, congress just paid the ransoms requested by the pirate/nations of Africa. He sent the Navy off to the coast of Africa to kick ass and take names. That marked our first venture in 'Regime Change'. President Jefferson was pretty much successful in this war. He "convinced" them to stop their nasty ways by introducing them to the new American Naval might and taking the fight to them. He owned and studied the Koran and Islam. It is from this that he warned us to be wary of Islamists. Not Islam, but Islamists. He foresaw that their embracing state and religion would be a problem for us. Since we embraced the very opposite.
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vman61
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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2010 7:10:55 PM
It was said by a wise dude in the past that religion is the built in self-destruct mechanism for the human race....and it looks like he may be right.
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galah
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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2010 1:58:38 PM
When there head honcho was nothing but a nasty warlord what else could you expect from his rantings.
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PithyOpiner
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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2010 12:37:27 AM
Just what does a muslim do with "wide-eyed women of paradise that will be given to the believers...”
I mean, he's in heaven, what does he need sex for? Wouldn't he be better off with a new prayer rug to prostrate himself before Allah and spend eternity on his knees? This infidel is all for taking it to them now and helping them on their way to their "wide-eyed women."
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CookieAcct
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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2010 7:37:52 AM
Here is quote to think about:
I don't find any difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalists. I believe religion is the root, and from the root fundamentalism grows as a poisonous stem. If we remove fundamentalism and keep religion, then one day or another fundamentalism will grow again. I need to say that because some liberals always defend Islam and blame fundamentalists for creating problems. But Islam itself oppresses women. Islam itself doesn't permit democracy and it violates human rights.
Taslima Nasrin
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jdhelm
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2010 9:15:08 AM
I persoanlly do not think that Islam is a true religion. The founding fathers of the USA pretty much had it right when they said that there needed to be seperation between Country and Religion.
To me, Islam seems to tend more towards being a type of gov't constitution more so then a religion.
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malcm
Champion Author
Los Angeles
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Message Posted: Mar 31, 2010 12:23:13 AM
There is only one word to describe killing in the name of ANY religion. That word is, simply, STUPIDITY! There is an appropriate cartoon that seems to sum it up. A couple is walking past a church and reading the sign, "This is the church of WE are right and everyone else is wrong!" The man says to his wife, "And it's non-denominational, too".
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xrdc
Champion Author
St. Louis
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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2010 2:11:19 PM
"A moderate Muslim can change into an extremist Muslim or terrorist in a single night, provided he delve deeper into Qur'anic verses" -Dr. Majid al-Balushi
From the Gaza newspaper al-Watan Voice, February 25, 2010
Should the speaker be regarded as an Islamophobe? Does he is misunderstand the religion? If so, how?
More:
“...the extremist Muslims [say] "I require you to comply with my demand, which is that you believe in my God, or pay me money (the jizyah), or I cut off your head." They resort to Qur'anic verses such as "the verse of the sword," which is the twenty-ninth verse from Surat "al-Tauba" (the 9th sura): "Kill those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, from among the people of the book, until they pay the jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
“This is also called the verse of the "jizyah" by some commentators. It is also the verse which abrogates all the verses which call for peace and understanding with others i.e. non-Muslims. In their view, it is a requirement to apply the command of Allah, which is what our brother, Sheikh Osama bin Laden, may Allah lengthen his life, is trying to do. Also not only the Taliban and al-Qa'ida and other groups, but this is indeed the hope of every Muslim faithful to his religion, whether he be a moderate or an extremist Muslim. “
((How do peace-loving Muslims get around this issue of abrogation?))
“The truth is that the difference between the moderate Muslim and the extremist Muslim is quantitative and not qualitative. In other words, a moderate Muslim can change into an extremist Muslim or terrorist in a single night, provided he delve deeper into Qur'anic verses, especially the verse of the sword, and the prophetic ahadith (sayings) calling for fighting and jihad in the path of "establishing the word of truth." Or by attending the "principles of fiqh" or "studies of fiqh" which are held in mosques normally after the evening prayers. It is here that attendees are brainwashed with a list of Qur'anic verses and prophetic ahadith and books of Islamic jurisprudence, and more, related to what is halal and haram, to apostasy and jihad... and the torment of the grave and the horrors of the hell-fire...and the Houris (wide-eyed women of paradise that will be given to the believers)...”
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[Edited by: xrdc at 3/2/2010 2:12:45 PM EST]
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