KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2011 10:39:30 PM
Yeah... that's why I don't let it... by thinking I have to have the latest greatest toys... scoutmaster... as I said...
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/18/2011 10:45:15 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2011 8:36:27 PM
The device will control you only if you let it KC.
Excellent observation about caching Davey.
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2011 11:08:36 AM
Thanks for all the research guys. Been a bit swamped and haven't had much time for testing my phone. Thought I had it resolved though via a response from gasbuddy support and the suggestions here, but it's still not working. I don't always get the "invalid" message any more, but the prices still don't post. Ah well, I can look them up and that's the main thing. I generally post way more than 5 prices a day anyway so it's not like I'm losing points.
FTR, caching should be pretty much immediate if it's not disabled by the page being loaded. They don't allow a whole lot of cache control on cell phones unfortunately since they really want you to use it as much as possible, because of the bandwidth savings.
Anyway I can only assume there is just something that is incompatible between this website and my current phone. I'm planning on replacing it soon anyway, less than a year old, but I really don't like it.
[Edited by: DaveyB230 at 6/18/2011 11:10:41 AM EST]
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2011 10:17:46 AM
For me... a new "smart phone" would only be a novelty, but no where near a necessity... and frankly more of an unnecessary ongoing expense, than a valuable benefit.
I'd much rather be on a computer when accessing the internet, and you're definitely not gonna catch me with my eyes glued to the phone as if it were a GPS system leading me around with every step, as though my arm were a leash, and it was my master... or even worse... staring at it while I drive.
I prefer to be the master of my gadgetry... not the other way around... If there is another person in my presence, or even within eye-ball range, I interact with them... not my phone. Heck... I won't even let a ringing phone interrupt a conversation. (Same goes for call waiting.)
So, for my particular usage... the current, not so old, "semi-smart" phone model I have is plenty.... Fortunately, having discovered the "Refresh" work around solution to the caching issue, I can use it for posting a few prices when it is actually the most efficient idea... which will only be at those times when an online computer won't soon be available.
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/18/2011 10:25:36 AM EST]
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bytebug
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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2011 9:17:42 AM
>> Time to get a new phone
I've tested with some fairly ancient phones. Of course, with a newer smart phone, you avoid the issue altogether, since you can browse to the real website, which is what I do with my iPhone and iPad...
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2011 8:24:48 AM
Time to get a new phone KC.
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 11:44:23 PM
Well, I figured out what that "Key Press Timeout" was, and no, you don't want it off. It controls the times where you are typing two characters in a row that are on the same key... like "no" for example. If it is off, the cursor will just sit there until you move it forward... not cool. Fast is good. That way it jumps to the next position quickly.
Still seems like the "Connection Timeout" should be better on 60 than on 30 seconds, though I haven't noticed any pros or cons there, yet.
I guess my phone is a 3G phone, btw, so, the browser software might be out there that doesn't cache so quickly... I've been looking, but no go yet. The built-in software update feature is worthless, due to the Alltel passing the responsibility to the Verison who then says it is an Alltel phone, so they can't do much... Oh, well, there were some good things about the merger, though all I can think of is the multiplied mobile to mobile.
Fortunately, discovering the "Refresh" solution, at least makes it possible to post prices... so for others with similar issues, hopefully it will work for you as well.
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/17/2011 11:47:18 PM EST]
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 8:12:11 PM
No... I guess not... apparently, there is no way to change the cache time on my phone. I'm sure the reason they cache so fast, is because the "web enabled" phones use voice frequencies, rather than the broadband network.
I did find a setting called "Key Press Timeout" which offers choices between "Off", "Slow", "Medium" and "Fast", which sounded a lot like a possible culprit, so I turned it off but haven't noticed any differences... it's still caching pages in 60 seconds.
I then tried a setting called "Connection Timeout" which has options of 30 or 60 seconds, that I changed to 60 seconds, but still no change on the page caching.
Both of those settings did sound like a possible culprit, but frankly I can't tell any differences after changing them.
To add some background: My phone was "software'd" for Alltel, originally, and then Verison bought most of that network, so they've probably dropped the ball on the software updates for the Alltel phones, no doubt because the the Alltel plans they grandfathered are about half price for web access.
I'm sure they would love to see everyone move to their plans, which if you upgrade your phone, even to a lessor, but Verison model, you get Verison's higher rates along with it.
I really think the problem some are having with the mobile site is in the individual phone browser software, which can be different even in the same model phone, if it was software'd for a different network provider.
So far it seems like I have a workable solution in using the "Refresh" as needed. It's not too bad, as I can tell in a half second if it is going to be necessary, and immediately drop the browser menu with the right soft key, scroll two or three entries down and select "Refresh" then hit "OK". So, it's pretty quick, and I may be stuck with it.
I'll still be using my desktop 99% of the time, anyway, as it is far more efficient, but I mainly wanted a way to post when computer access was several hours away.
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/17/2011 8:19:27 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 7:37:53 PM
Cached in 60 seconds? That seems kinda fast. And you can't change that setting on your phone?
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 6:40:17 PM
Well... I did quite a bit of price posting, today, via my LG 565 "Web enabled" phone and the mobile site, and decided there may not even be a need to clear the cache, but instead I just have to treat the "Refresh" as a backup "OK" button when the ones on the site don't respond as expected.
Apparently, the page is cached right at 60 seconds after you first load it, which if that happens you may not be able to use the "Send" type buttons like "OK", "Go" and "Post Prices".
If you are able to move quick enough, you might not notice a problem, but if the page gets cached, and as in my case, the "Post Prices" gets disabled... or as in DaveyB230's case, you get a message saying "Please enter a valid price"... that's when the "Refresh" will probably act exactly like the "Post Prices" command should have.
On several of the "Post Prices" commands I did earlier, nothing would happen (probably because I was having to type every character of three or four prices and it was taking too long) so I would immediately open the browser menu and select "Refresh"... which a message would then popup saying "Page expired. Resend data?" to which I would hit "OK" and the price would update as I had intended.
So... to put it simply... if the "Send" type command doesn't work immediately go with "Refresh".
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bytebug
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 6:23:28 PM
>> I just logged into the site on the browser on my Droid. I was able to update a price just
>> as easily as I can using the app.
As have I on a number of different phones.
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 9:58:41 AM
It's only a "cheap shot" to those who don't recognize the value... scoutmaster.
One man's "cheap shot" is a whole bunch of others' helpful guidance around distractions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For those with "web enabled" phones and not "smart phones"... if you are having issues with the mobile site... start at the bottom of the thread or see the summary to this point in the lower portion of my most recent post, a couple posts below...
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/17/2011 10:01:11 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 9:26:32 AM
Again with the cheap shots, KC! Thanks!
My post was a statement of fact, KC.
(edited for formatting)
[Edited by: scoutmaster at 6/17/2011 9:28:03 AM EST]
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 9:10:06 AM
Not a helpful post scoutmaster... as the problems seem to be due to the author, Davey, and my using "web enabled" phones rather than "smart phones".
Of course if you had read... even just the early replies in the thread... you'd already know that...
You'd also know that based on bytebug's trial with a couple similar type phones, he wasn't having the issue... so it is probably more related to the particular phone software... which isn't shocking... since they are all different... even on the same model phones... when the network provider is different.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So... for those having similar issues as the Opening Post (OP) and rest of the thread describe... I think we have it pretty well narrowed down to each page you view being immediately "cached" to get your phone off the air waves as quickly as possible (saving data minutes for some phone plans and air waves for the network)... coupled with the phone not knowing to refresh the cache with your changes.... or even when you close and reopen the browser... It'll just keep working off the cache that's in your phone (when the page you request is already in the cache due to your having viewed the page before, that is).
The simple, though slightly inconvenient work around seems to be "refreshing" the page yourself, or even "clearing" or "deleting" or "emptying" the cache, yourself... (depending on what it's called in your phone's browser menu).
As my more recent posts show, there seem to be different solutions to different problems, though I think an initial clearing of the cache with each visit to the mobile site, might be a good first step, then followed by refreshing the page anytime your navigation and commands such as "Submit Prices" don't seem to work.
While DaveyB230 is having slightly different symptoms, it is probably still from the same page caching problem and likely has the same work arounds.
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/17/2011 9:15:43 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 7:06:20 AM
I just logged into the site on the browser on my Droid. I was able to update a price just as easily as I can using the app.
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 1:45:28 AM
If you didn't catch that in the last post... what I was saying I'd discovered, was that when posting prices... a "refresh" didn't work prior to entering the new prices... but it did work after entering them and trying to submit them and having nothing happen. It actually posted the prices while it was refreshing the page so there was no need to submit them again.
Apparently the page is expiring within seconds of loading it. (Caching instantly.) Actually makes sense, for reducing signal usage... still should be able to reacquire as needed, rather than expire.
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/17/2011 1:51:17 AM EST]
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 1:21:48 AM
Well, I already have a correction to add...
In pondering the familiar cache issue, that I can incidentally recall coming up many times on many sites, for various reasons, over the years... it just didn't seem right that a page "refresh" would be sufficient, even though it did work to update the Profile stats, and appeared to have worked in a price post test.
Well... it apparently didn't... as even though I saw the upload of the price and got the subsequent message as if it had happened, the website never actually updated. So, I went in to test the "refresh" and sure enough it didn't remove the red links for the station I had posted.
Upon further investigation, I've found that with my LG 565 browser software, the way to clear the cache is by selecting "clear memory" from the browser menu and then it will offer four check boxes to choose what to clear... one of them being the "cache". I guess that will have to be step one each time I load the mobile site.
Okay... I just did some testing before posting this and discovered yet another trick to solve the problem...
In those cases where you enter your prices and then have no luck submitting them... a refresh will resend the page including the new prices rather than clearing them, and they post (at least in my case they did). In fact, upon initiating a refresh, a message pops up saying "The page has expired do you want to resend the information?" which "OK" will then do, and the prices post. Of course that seems bogus that the page would be expired almost immediately, but still, that may be the way to make it work rather than the official "cache clear" that I described above.
BTW, one more tid bit... clearing the cache did not remove the "Remember Me" function, since that's in a cookie, and I didn't clear the cookies (one of the four check boxes I referred to earlier).
I'll post again with any new developments...
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2011 12:09:21 AM
Hey Davey, I may have stumbled onto a clue on the mobile site issue and lookie there... you are on the very same page at your end. I also was suspecting a cache issue, and once you get in that mode of thought, there are a few clues that pretty much confirm it, even though it also defies logic in other respects. Who knew the phone would have much cache at all, really, but it apparently does... and who knew the cache would not clear (other than the "Remember Me") when you close the brower... even if a week ago...??
Of course some of the clues are pretty obvious... in a few red (already clicked in the session) links instead of all unclicked blue ones... even though you just launched the browser and loaded the page.
Actually, the first clue I was able to confirm was in visiting my Profile right off the bat and comparing the stats to see if they were up to date, which they weren't... until I refreshed the page.
Another clue I caught... was in a trial of reporting prices from a Favorites List that only had two stations. One set of station links was red, and the other was blue... due to that first one having been the one I had been testing yesterday.
Another clue there, that I hadn't seen before... was that the present time was not accurate. In fact, I happened to remember it was still showing the last time I had done a test, the day before.
Another thing to watch for is the upload and download indicator as the pages are requested and downloaded. Mine is pretty obvious, as to whether that is happening, with a string of green arrows to the right, with the upstream, which is answered with a string to the left, with the downstream. That... I had noticed earlier... but still wasn't thinking of a simple "refresh" instead of navigating away and returning to the page, or closing the browser completely... which didn't change the cache... as I should have considered... it might not.
So anyway... so far, I think it is as simple as leaving the "Remember Me" box checked for quick and easy site launches, but then being conscientious of the cache and doing page refreshes, essentially of each and every page with each visit, to clear it.
In other words, navigate to each page and watch for the the actual upload and download arrow streams (not the single "connection established" indicator arrows) and if the page loads without those streams having first appeared, knowing the page is a cache and needs to be refreshed. Of course there are also the red (already clicked) links to watch for as an indicator.
A bit of a pain... yes... but at least I can now make work... I hope. I also hope that is the story for you and whomever else that might come along with the same problem, as well...
I'll post again if I discover there is still a problem... or maybe to confirm it is indeed working as suspected.
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/17/2011 12:17:06 AM EST]
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2011 12:04:21 AM
Yeah I realized I used the wrong wording shortly after posting, so many sites use the same feature but call it different things and I went by memory rather than checking. My bad there.
I most definitely had the box checked, and I did it quite a few times no way I missed it every time. No matter since I did find out what the issue was there though, or at least I'm pretty sure I have. It appears to be a caching problem. I believe the author of the mobile site only used one of the three methods used to keeping browsers from caching pages, that's insufficient as no browser knows all 3 methods, phone browsers typically only know 1.
I'm beginning to suspect that my posting problem maybe related to the same issue. I will be able to tell more when I can use my office computer to view the WML and WMLScripts used. If I can find the problem I may be able to find a work around as well. With that in my head, I did manage to get the page to accept a post without the error message, only problem was it still didn't post the gas price. I'll have to collect a bunch of prices on my way to work tomorrow to so I have lots of test entries lol.
[Edited by: DaveyB230 at 6/14/2011 12:09:23 AM EST]
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 9:55:05 PM
Hey Davey, for clarity sake, on that "keep me logged in"... while I'm on the site... feature... that's not what it is.
It is instead a "Remember Me"... and don't make me sign in, the next time I open a browser and come back... feature.
Based on what you are saying, you either didn't have the "Remember Me" box on the Log In page checked, or the feature was not working, since you say you had to sign in each time you reopened a browser.
In my case, that particular feature was working as it was supposed to.
Interesting that you tried those older phones with no problems, bytebug. My model was relatively new three years ago, but I was definitely thinking the age of the phone software might have been an issue.
It was originally on the Alltel network until Verison bought most of that business. It's still what they call an Alltel plan, though, so there may be some software issues somehow linked to that subject.
Well, I just opened a browser and visited the site, which having the "Remember Me" box checked, I did not have to sign in, and used the Favorites List link to update four prices at a station.
It all worked as it should this time around. Makes me wonder a bit about wireless network traffic as a possible culprit to the problem, though it was doing searches and presenting the results, and delivering other pages as requested, so the heavy traffic scenario doesn't seem as likely, for that reason.
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 8:52:06 PM
I appreciate your trying bytebug. I'm having trouble finding my old blackberry, I wanted to see it it was related to the software used by my provider.
It is an odd problem I must admit. I'm glad that so far it looks like it's not effecting very many users, just disappointed that I'm one of them LOL.
My WML interpreter is on my office computer so I'll have to check that when I have some time available. Nice thing about that is it can emulate a lot of different phones.
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bytebug
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 8:17:39 PM
The reason I asked what kind of phone was so I might better test and try to reproduce the issue you're seeing.
So far, I've tried posting from a couple different phones (a Motorola RAZR v3, and a really old Nokia), and had no issues with either, AS LONG AS I WAS LOGGED IN.
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 6:51:59 PM
Nope same problem. Ah well\
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 6:42:25 PM
I do understand how the "keep me logged in" works, the point was normally I never log out, but each time I reopen the browser I have to log in anyway, except today. I only logged out intentionally today to see if I would have the same problem as KCWeb.
Anyway my problem has been ongoing since I first tried about a month ago to post a price. Just the same it seems they were probably working on something so I think I'll give it another try.
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 6:24:56 PM
Now the Favorites Lists are gone...
I notice Sam's Club has the prior prices listed, too. I can get both the old and the correct updated results, depending on the route I navigate on the site. (I did the update.)
They only have two fuel choices... 87 and 91 octane, and someone had posted the 91 in the mid grade field, someone else had made up a Diesel price, and the Regular and Premium were correct.
So, I fixed it all, but it did take the double update method on the Diesel since that price was a couple days old. (That's a subject for another ongoing thread.)
Back to this subject, there are obviously still some problems going on with the mobile site. I hope they're working on it, for sure.
Okay... I just closed my browser and then relaunched it and then the mobile site URL and my Favorites are back... and so is the inability to post a price...
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 5:55:54 PM
Okay, now I am logged in, after yet another attempt, and the "Remember Me" box is checked so it will probably successfully log me in each time from here forward.
If I were you, Davey, I wouldn't worry about logging out. Just close your browser when you're done and leave the "Remember Me" box checked so you'll be logged in the next time you visit the site.
I am about to see if I can post a price... It worked!
Maybe someone read this thread, or one of the messages I just sent, though that would be some fast action, for sure!
Hope it keeps working!
Actually, I am also now wondering if the fresh login is what solved the problem... even though it took several attempts over the past hour to get that to work.
[Edited by: KCWeb at 6/13/2011 6:01:02 PM EST]
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 5:48:23 PM
Actually, Davey, the way the "Remember Me" option works is to log you on every time you visit the site, as opposed to keeping you logged in while on the site.
You should stay logged in until you literally log out, or like you say, you closed your browser. That would log you out, but then the "Remember Me" box being checked would log you back in once you launched the URL again.
As it sits now, since I literally logged out, it required a fresh login which isn't working. Had I just closed the browser, the "Remember Me" would have worked, as it had been each time, with prior visits.
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 5:39:29 PM
Getting stranger by the minute. After logging out and finding I couldn't log back in I shut my phone off and went back... I was logged in automatically? Very strange indeed.
Tried a couple times now. Before I couldn't stay logged in, now I can't log out LOL
[Edited by: DaveyB230 at 6/13/2011 5:43:27 PM EST]
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 5:37:06 PM
Also posted the issue via the Contact Us form mail, which will probably travel the same route as the PM I sent, but who knows, maybe different people read them.
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 5:36:30 PM
Interesting KS... It's funny the "stay logged in" function has never worked for me till today. I always have to relogin each time I load the website. I do appear to stay logged as long as the browser stays open, ie my name appears at the top of the page. But once I close the browser that's it I have to log in again.
You may be right though since I can't log back in either.
[Edited by: DaveyB230 at 6/13/2011 5:38:47 PM EST]
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 5:22:04 PM
I now have yet another development to add to the picture.
I had the site set to "Remember Me" so I was already logged on, but just logged myself off, to see if a fresh login would correct the problem, only to now not be able to get logged back in.
I would say it is pretty obvious they've done an update in the last couple weeks and there is apparently a send and report issue on some of the links. Probably just broken links due to a slightly altered URL in the update.
It wasn't a login issue as I know the "Remember Me" was logging me in.
I've posted the issue as a "website error" to the GB moderator via the Member Messaging but if any of you senior members know of a better way, let me know.
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KCWeb
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 4:41:31 PM
Though 99.9% of my GasBuddy activity has been via desktop PC, I have recently played around with the mobile site using my web enabled LG 565 and while it does navigate the various available pages including my FSL's and Profile, Station Searches, etc. I did notice recently that I couldn't get it to post a price. (Read again, if you are wondering if I was logged in.)
I'd enter the price and press on "OK" and nothing would happen. I'd reboot the phone, sign back in, navigate the site, do searches, but when it came time to post a price... no amount of pressing "Select" or "OK" would move it forward. The system was not hung, it just wasn't giving a response.
I had posted a few prices via the same exact method a week before, so I decided it was a glitch on the mobile site, since all other navigation worked.
Now, along the same lines, another thing I noticed is that the "find a station near me" link did the same thing, so there must have been some kind of GPS read glitch going on, which I could see that very possibly being the phone, though I did make sure the GPS was in the always on mode as opposed to the 911 only. (Unfortunately, I don't know if that was working before, or not.)
Frankly, I am wondering if GB might have done an update on the mobile site, in the past week, as I was able definitely able to post prices about a week ago.
No go today, either...
One thing I see is different from the OP is that I am not getting a "Please enter a valid price" message... just no advancement at all.
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 3:20:04 PM
It's just a basic web enabled phone, it can even manage a regular website just doesn't display every well. Anyway it's a Juno made by Sanyo.
I think I'll check it with my old Blackberry (hate that phone LOL). I have a browser on my computer that's WML enabled for mobile web-development maybe I can see what they've done using that.
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bytebug
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 2:59:23 PM
what kind of phone?
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DaveyB230
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 2:46:53 PM
Scrapheap - Thanks I tried it, didn't help.
ByteBug - I suspect you're right, though there is nothing wrong with the phone. I can submit data anywhere else in all formats with no problem and we are talking straight WML coding, not like an app. I suspect they are doing something strange/non-standard within the WMLScript that checks the format that for some reason my phone doesn't like. I'm just wondering what it is and how many phone makes it might effect.
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Scrapheap
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 2:32:07 PM
Try rebooting your phone.
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bytebug
Champion Author
Orange County
Posts:26,389
Points:4,123,630
Joined:Oct 2001
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 2:21:20 PM
Probably your phone, then.
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DaveyB230
Rookie Author
Los Angeles
Posts:69
Points:72,700
Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 1:31:30 PM
Yup, double checked that when it didn't work for the 3rd time. Actually I have tried it many times over the last month, always the same problem.
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bytebug
Champion Author
Orange County
Posts:26,389
Points:4,123,630
Joined:Oct 2001
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2011 12:50:06 PM
Were you logged in? I just tried the mobile site, and it didn't register an update I made while not logged in. Once I'd logged in, no problem.
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